New Member with a Scott project needs advice

[Deleted User]

Dear All
Just joined the club and would like to introduce myself. My name is Stuart and I live in Hong Kong. I recently purchased the 1929 Scott Flying Squirrel Sport Touring sold by one of the club members David that was listed on ebay. The bike will take several weeks to reach me Via container ship, and even longer if it gets held up by Somalian pirates.

I have never seen a Scott motorcycle before but thought it would be a great project for restoration. so to cut to the chase I am uncertain if all the part purchased are correct for the year or if I need to look for additional pieces to bring it up to spec, the Mag Dyno I need because in Hong Kong I have to install a headlamp and break light by law so that needs to stay. Things I know I am missing are all the handlebar controls, but I see many images with end bar levers regular levers and some that go all out and have both, can anyone enlighten me on a correct setup including choke and advance retard.

Radiator
The one supplied needs new honeycomb and some serious dent removal, can anyone let me know if this is the correct radiator for the type of bike David whom is a very honest gentleman suggests that it may not be correct, and if so does someone have the dimensions for the tube diameter and spacing between centres for the tubes that make up the honeycomb. Also I am curious what happens where the bolts go through, I presume that there is a larges diameter tube within the honeycomb cluster. I plan on re honeycombing myself or making an entire new one from scratch If some one has an image without the bolts running through so I can see the layout that would be great and very much appreciated.

Wheels
Are the rear and front wheel hubs correct for the bike? and does anyone know the correct rim and spoke sizes for both front and rear also a recommendation for tyre sizes. I can be sourcing all these while the Somalians are polishing the gearbox up.

Speedometer
I need one under Hong Kong law, has anyone solved this fix and will a speedo drive fit between the side of the hub and the forks?

Bike Dating
My numbers are as follows Frame: 3008M Frame: FZ20118A is there a system to find out the date of manufacture for both?

Many thanks in advance for any advice and pictures always solve a thousand words especially for the radiator.

All Images can be viewed at the following link https://postimg.cc/gallery/1xplh29ok/

Regards

Stuart

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[lewis onions]

Good afternoon Stuart.

I am pleased that you now have access to the forum following our exchange of emails this morning and that you have had no difficulty in posting photographs.

I suggest that the first step is to identify the model you have by asking Ian Parsons to check the records in the club archive. I saw this bike when it was for sale on ebay but I cannot recall all of the details which were evident from the photographs posted as part of the listing. The tank is painted correctly for a 1929/30 Flying Squirrel of which there were two main varieties – Tourer and De Luxe. The Tourer used a Webb rear hub and the De Luxe an Enfield cush hub. I think what you have is a Webb rear hub but I am not sure, the brake-arm mechanism is very unfamiliar. Another difference between the models was the type of front forks – Tourers used Webb middle-weight forks and the De Luxe Scott’s own design of fork.

The Scott catalogues have not been digitised and uploaded to the members area of this site at present but if you contact the club archivist,Dave Bushell, he should be able to copy the 1929 catalogue to you which should include the wheel and tyre dimensions. Have a look at the Scott Technicalities site which also has detailed descriptions of each of the models (www.scotttechnicalities.com.au)

The engine number you have quoted is for a 497 cc short stroke from (I believe) 1927. Many Scotts have had engine replacements over the years.

The radiator has been re-cored or is a later replacement.The original would have been a honeycomb-type consisting of many small tubes soldered together.Graham Moag (who runs the Club spares scheme) manufactures new radiators and therefore is likely to have the dimensions you need to make a new one. I wish you luck as it will be a painstaking process!

Many vintage Scotts have speedometers. The catalogue offered customers the Bonnisken but you will know that examples now often change hands at over £1500. Other contemporary makes come up for sale but often the drive mechanism is missing.This usually comprises a sprocket which attaches to the spokes of the front wheel and a small gear mounted on the forks or the wheel spindle which engages with the sprocket. Later Scotts had a Smiths Speedometer driven from a drive contained behind the front brake plate.

Welcome to the world of Scott Motorcycles! I hope that you will have a lasting and enjoyable relationship with your bike. I am not sure whether there are any other owners in Hong Kong so your bike might be a first.

Please feel free to ask more questions as you need to.

Regards

Lewis

[Deleted User]

Dear Lewis

Many thanks for taking the time out to answer some questions, I will try to contact Dave and Graham when I can figure out how to do so on the forum and get some additional information regarding wheels and Radiators. I’m looking forward too getting stuck into the restoration and getting the bike on the road.

Yes it will be the one and only Scott in Hong Kong, the vintage bike scene here is very small with only a small number of us. Last year I restored a 1942 BSA WM20 back to full military specs completing all of the work myself including the spray painting and making the panniers, it took a total of 6 months working a few days a week to complete. It is the only BSA WM20 in Hong Kong and the 2nd oldest running bike on the road here. See attached image.

Regards

Stuart

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[Deleted User]

This may seem strange, but my family are in HK at present. If you wish to contact them please send me
a pm. with your contact info for onward transmission to them

paul.rickards@virgin.net. SOC Scottish Secretary, Paul Rickards

[PhilCrowder]

Regarding speedometers. Whilst both my sons use Sat nav type speed recorders clipped on to the handlebars. I have, much to their disgust. A made in China British style look alike. Runs off a small 18 volt battery, which cost me about £40 delivered. Has a sensor and gives accurate speed and distance. I will eventually replace it with an old style mechanical one. ( Or I might not)

[Ian Parsons]

Hello Stuart, I am pleased you have found a Scott. This Scott has been on the Register since 1999 and as it has Scott forks was probably a Flying Squirrel De Luxe Model. It may not have the original engine which was probably numbered about 2550 – 2600. The VMCC Library has the Scott despatch records and will be able to give you a transcript of the original specification. UV is a London issued Reg No but the London CC records have been destroyed so it is not possible to discover original owners.

[Deleted User]

Dear All

Many thanks for all the help and advice, it is greatly appreciated. Phil I will probable look out for an original Smiths Speedometer, I Purchased a brand new out of the box NOS speedo for my BSA WM20 from a gentleman in Iraq whom has 86 for sale, he found the building the British stored all their bike spares in during WW2 as has a gold mine of engines still crated and enough parts to build many WW2 bikes from scratch.

Ian, sorry to bother you but do you know how I can get in touch with the VMCC for additional information? I was not expecting a complete matching bike given the age and my past experience with my last restoration, as long as I can get some sort of guideline from the frame number I with have a more fluid path to follow with regards to final look.

I have just ordered 6 degree cutter so I can start work making a flange tool, I can then flange the ends on 1200 3 inch long pieces of brass tube ready in the attempt to manufacture my onw radiator as the one supplied with the bike is long past its sell by date. I ned to do some tests first on dip soldering and testing a few different fluxes to see what will work the best.

Regards

Stuart

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[PhilCrowder]

Good to see this new site being used for what it is intended. In UK mechanical speedometer set ups of the late 1920s are expensive , about £1000 if you can find them. The WW2 ones are of a magnetic drive usually and if like some ( not me) you are looking to return everything to period it might take as they say ” some time”. There are Scotts in our club perfect. But as a member of about a year, no two seem alike. If ( and its just my opinion ) something better or even more modern can be used whilst searching for exact parts, then I do it. As an engineer the last part on a Scott I would make would be the radiator. Tubes have to be swaged a bit parallel at each and tinned and soldered in a bath in one hit. Graham Moag the club spares man has the experience and equipment to do it.There are others, but I bet you will have you hands full with the rest. I have other bikes but my knowledge of the vagaries of Scott two stroke twins is very limited. Best of luck. Keep using this site it will help it develop .

[Deleted User]

Dear Phil

Many thanks for the reply. By trade I am a modelmaker so manufacturing things by hand from a set of drawings is something that I have been doing for a job on a daily basis.

On and off for the last 30 years I have been restoring vintage bellows cameras all over 100 years old, when I first asked on the forums about making bellows I had the same reply from one and all that it is impossible and all the craftsmen whom used to make them are all long gone. To me that was a challenge and within a few weeks I was up and running manufacturing brand new concertina bellows with over 1 meter of draw for my large format cameras, and it seamed that I was the only one in the world doing so because no one knew of a machine that made them yet couldn’t comprehend someone doing it by hand.

The way I look at it is that 100 years ago the radiators were being produced by several companies all by hand with very simple tools, I can still purchase all the same raw materials today (well saying that I have the choice of 6mm or 8mm brass tube but not the desired 7mm) so there should in theory with patients and practice be no reason why I cannot do what people in my grandfathers age were learning as apprentices, or at least have a attempt. If I fail so be it but I would rather try and hopefully learn a new skill and pass that knowledge on to others that fit a radiator to the bike that is held together with tape. I will post my attempts and failures on the forum as I work the process out and hopefully I wont be eating humble pie.

For the Chronometric Speedometer I will need to wait till my bike arrives on the 23rd of August to see if there are any tolerances to install a Smiths speedo drive on the front wheel. Although I am not a rivet counter so if I need to go for a classic looking modern equivalent that would also be fine by me, the speedometer needs to be fitted purely for the Government MOT test not for something I actually need to use.

Regards

Stuart

[PhilCrowder]

As you say all things can be made, either by hand ( knife and fork we say ) or with tools. If you can get hold of the Yowl October 2018 . There is a nice piece on Graham Moag who makes Scott radiators. Gives an insight as to small volume honeycomb radiators are made. There are several companies remaking vintage radiators , and several who can supply ready built core banks. None are cheap so the alternatives are to purchase used ones ( with possible faults ) or to have a go yourself if the equipment is available. I have a very comprehensive workshop available , but if parts are made by specialists, most who make no real money, I buy from them. I have been an engineer for 65 years still working but I know my place!!!

[Deleted User]

Dear Phil

Many thanks for the feedback, do you know how I can get in touch with Graham Moag, I still don’t know how the forum works in being able to contact individual members, if he is willing it would be great to pick his brains on the process he goes through. Do you also know if back issues of yowl are digitised on this site so members can access them for information?

Yes I know what you mean about knowing your place I have crashed and burned on several projects in the past and then needed to seek the help of a master at the trade. Its just the way my brain is wired I love the challenge of trying to figure something out and solving the problem. Quite often it ends up costing me more money that just buying something in the first place but its that sense of satisfaction the step back knowing that you did it yourself no matter how big or small the project.

My last restoration project was my first and I didn’t know a thing about motorcycles or engines, I didn’t even have a licence to ride one, but since I was a kid I always though it would be a great project to restore a vintage bike and now I’m hooked. There are a few vintage bikes in Hong Kong but when you talk to the owners whom say they restored their bikes and you pick their brains, it gets very obvious that their idea of restoration is to deliver the bike to someone whom does all the work then they pick it up 6 months later. My BSA was entered into the vintage bike show last January and I was chuffed to win best bike at show, It may not have been the nicest or rarest but word had got around that I had completed all the work myself at home Spray painting on my roof and assembling engines on my dining room table, and even sewing up my own canvas panniers. so the bike became a talking point and still is when I head out on rides.

Cannot wait to start the project and I’m sure I will be bombarding the forum with mundane questions so hopefully members wont get sick of seeing all my posts.

Regards

Stuart

[PhilCrowder]

The Website is not fully operational yet as it replaces one which was considered better. So contact to club officers has been held. I suspect that the Web will either return to what it was or be totally replaced. It can be used as it is but it is not as user friendly as it should be. You will find individual E Mail addresses in the Yowl . I am 80 and a relatively new member who like you can make and have made any mechanical part. Knowing what to make and how it works relies on the very experienced like Brian Marshall , Rodger Moss etc. I have just been on my first Scott rally with my 1929 600 cc Flier. No two bikes were the same and plenty of little mods appeared on several of the nearly 30 bikes there. One of my sons building a Scott special appeared on his 1924 Norton ( four stroke). I use this site in order to encourage others who might have been a bit disapointed with this new format and are so far not using it. I want like you experienced input. There are a couple of facebook pages with active inputs..

[Deleted User]

Dear Phil

Sorry for the late reply, I have just returned from Shanghai and Suzhou and to top it all off I have sciatica so in a lot of pain and as my week consists of sitting in an average of 6 aeroplanes a week I’m in agony. Anyway hopefully I can get it sorted out before the bike arrives at the end of next month or I wont be able to keep to my schedule of a January finishing date, I may have to resort to lacing wheels on the flight to keep on schedule Haha.

I’m glad to hear that no two bikes are the same that will keep the rivet counters at bay and will save me time trying to find parts if I have several options that can be used. I am in the process of ordering 1400 brass tubes 7mm x 0.5mm x 75mm from a factory in China so that will save me a day on the circular saw cutting the then de-burring, so the radiator manufacturing is already in full swing even though I have no reference material to go by.

Regards

Stuart

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