Novice Scott question: petroil

[Deleted User]

Hello all,

As an enthusiastic twostroke rider (and hoping to add a Scott to my collection very soon) I’ve a little question.

Is it possible to ride a Scott (1927 Flyer shortstroke) without the oilpump? So just with a petrol/oil mixture in the tank? And what mixture should you use then? Or does the pump deliver oil to other places besides the fuel mixture?

I’m quite new to Scotts but in all my other two strokes I only use premixed petroil. And at the Coupes Moto Legende last weekend in Dijon France I saw a Scott racing without a vissible oilpump.

So… 😕

Thanks,

Regards from Holland,
Erik

[dave bushell]

Hi Erik
The oil pump or drippers supply oil to the main bearings and glands. As these bearings and glands are effectively outside of the crankcase chambers, they would not be lubricated by a petroil mixture.
Regards
Dave Bushell

[Deleted User]

Thanks Dave, that’s a clear reply. My other two strokes all have the bearings lubricated by the mixture or a wetsump.

But I do wonder how the Scott I saw on track did cope without a pump…

Regards,
Erik

[Deleted User]

Hi Erik
A famous Scott rider and engineer Clive Waye, used to race his Scott on methanol with Castrol R castor oil.
He had oil cups on the crankcase and before each race he squirted in some oil from an oil can to keep the spring loaded metal to metal sealing glands and main bearing rollers lubricated.
I use Petroil but with a dripp feed to the two crancase feed connections to be sure to lubricate the main bearings and seals.
I am sure that you would find the Scott experience very rewarding
Kind Regards
Roger Moss

[Martin Heckscher]

Hi Erik,

I had an entry for Dijon, and having had a great time there with my Scott last year, was sorry not to do it again. Unfortunately a rogue car driver had other ideas, about 5 weeks ago, and both my TT Rep and my right arm are now rather mangled. I shall certainly enter again next year.

I think I am right in saying that there are some Scotts out there which have been converted to run on petroil and it is likely that the Scott you saw was running such a conversion. There is quite a lot of work involved and it has been written up in old copies of “Yowl” (the club magazine). Undoubtedly details appear in Technicalities, now available on CD thanks to Steven Enticott.

Good luck with your Scott purchase!
Martin

[Deleted User]

Thanks for the replies! I’ve been wanting to have a Scott for 10 years now. Being a two stroke enthusiast (mainly riding, tuning and racing classic scooters) I just love it.

The Scott I saw (and heard 😀 ) at Dijon was a TT replica with a rather small tank (white diamond) and a nice expansion exhaust. It was from a german guy. Maybe you know him by this description.
I rode a tuned Vespa 90 this year and the track really is superb. We might meet next year Martin!

Best wishes,
Erik

PS: when I buy the Scott (figuring out the means to finance it right now…) I’m sure I’ll come back here! Forums are one of the internets greatest benifits!

[Deleted User]

Someone wrote about this subject once.
It is something about turning the glands and drilling a hole from the crankcase.

[Deleted User]

Mmmm, reading the post over again I still have lubrication question…

I understand now that the drip feed and/or oil pump lubrucates all the parts outside the crankcase. But how does the piston/cilinder get lubricated? Do you still have to use petroil? Or is there oil injected at those places too?
I tried finding the answer in the one Scott book I have but I could not find it. I did read something on extra cilinderlubrication on some (TT) models though…

Best wishes,
Erik

[Deleted User]

The oil is pumped inte the crankbearings, from where it flows into the crankcase.
Here it flows into a well (one, each side). The bigends dips into these wells and “picks” up oil (throws it around and mixes it with the petrol).
The pistons have some cuts at the skirts that carries oil up into the bore.
Some Scotts had direct lubricarion to the bore.
“The book of the Scott”, and “The yowling two-stroke” are good sources for these informations

[Deleted User]

Hi Martin,
Sorry to hear about your accident, hope you are well on the road to recovery. Unfortunately we have to ride and think for all other road users but even doing this cannot cover all incidents. I commute to Manchester every day on my modern bike and generally cars are very good and leave room for me to filter. Just every so often someone will shoot out without any signal or hint they were going to do so. Infact the other week a young woman using her mobile decide to cut across from the inside lane (3 lanes) and turn right without any signal or hint whatsoever! She’d seen a gap on the other side of the road (also 3 lanes) and it must have been a shortcut for her. I was fortunate and missed her by inches. You obviously weren’t so fortunate.
How are you going on with the repairs? Will you be doing them yourself or will the Insurance company be doing it?
Take care
Rod

[Martin Heckscher]

Thanks Rod,

A little like you, I have been commuting into London on a “modern” for over 35 years, and you get to sense what cars are going to do almost before they know themselves. But I was on a rural A road when this car came flying out of a side road without stopping and at point blank range. I wouldn’t have had a chance with modern brakes let alone on the Rep.

To be honest I was fantastically lucky to get away with banged up, but not broken, knees, and a radius broken in 7 places. The bike wasn’t so lucky. I’ll claim off the other driver’s insurance but apart from my intention to make it right again, I’ll wait for the all clear on the insurance front before making firm plans. It should be possible to salvage the engine, gearbox, mag and carb. Just about everything else is broken or bent.

Thanks again for your support.
Martin

[Deleted User]

Hi Martin,
Whilst not being able to see the frame, it is surprising what can be done with modern frame straightening devices. MCN featured a company near us who showed it being done recently and it was amazing to follow it through. If tubing is crushed, then a good source of help are the trike builders who basically use cold drawn seamless tubing to connect the frame to the new rear end or construct a complete new frame.
I don’t know who you are insured with, but Carol Nash do allow you to repair your own on some policies and pay you to do it. Just make sure you check the engine cases are OK as such a shunt could easily have twisted something you cannot see properly. I’m certain with your experience you’ll know what to look for but I find I’m more observant with other people’s machines than my own.

I know we can all make mistakes which can lead to nothing or something major but this sort of stupidity by the car driver deserves prosecution.

Radius broken in 7 places doesn’t sound too minor but glad you are putting a positive slant on things.

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