Pilgrim parts?

[pplatt]

Hi,

Does anyone know where I can get hold of the little screws that retain the sight glass lid on my pilgrim. The bike is a 1936 DPY.

Does the club spares scheme have the screws?

-Thanks.

[timetc]

One of the best things about another make of motorcycle I am associated with is that someone has taken the trouble to list all the screw threads and sizes used on the machine and its ancilaries. once you have a list like that its a simple matter to source the fixings (or make -modify them).
At least it would seem to me (as a Scott novice) that Scotts did stick to fairly normal sizes not like Douglas who went completly off their trolly with the most weird thread sizes… 🙄

[jamesc]

Hi,

I have had a look at mine. Appears to be 4 BA x 1/4″.

I have had a look on the net and have found several possibilities including this supplier of fasteners:

https://www.silentstainless.co.uk/lists/silent%20stainless%20ltd%20-%20general%20fasteners%20list%202010.pdf

Best wishes,

James

[efr215]

I have just had a look at my Pilgrim pump (1951 vintage) too but cannot be entirely positive if these screws were/are 1/8th Whitworth (0.125” dia x 40tpi) or 5BA (0.126” dia x 43.1 tpi). Sadly the threads in my pump are, ‘er, shall we say, “not entirely fresh”, so I cannot be 100% and I certainly don’t trust the screws that came with it!

What is sure is that the threads are smaller than those holding the end caps, (under the flow adjuster screws), and those are 4BA for certain. Now if they used BA threads there then maybe the window bezel screws were BA too?

All I can say is good luck buying 1/8 Whit or 5BA these days!

If all else fails and you are not (a) too precious about authenticity and (b) desperate enough you could open the threads up to 3,5mm (0.138”) as there is just enough metal to do this but I’ve my doubts if there is enough metal for a Helicoil.

I’ve just seen jamesc’s post; I suspect that his pump has been “treated” at some time. I omitted suggesting 4BA because it’s getting to be a ‘non-preferred’ size these days but it’d certainly do the trick.

[Richard Blackburn]

I have new steel 5BA in csk (1/4″ long) or dome slot head (3/8″ long) as I use them for little end bushes and main bearing cups respectively.

If you need some I could post them or take them to Abbotsholme. I have not got round to putting them for online purchase yet, they are 15p each plus VAT and postage.

Best regards,
Richard

[pplatt]

Many thanks to all for the prompt and informative replies. I have to admit I was being a bit naive and thought that these screws may well be a ‘standard’ part … silly me!

I think I’ll take the screws into work and se if I can find someone to measure them and confirm what I have before I buy but I may well take up the kind offer of buying from a fellow SOC member.

Thanks again.

[efr215]

“I have to admit I was being a bit naive and thought that these screws may well be a ‘standard’ part.”

Nahh! They were standard —- in 1936!!! 😉 😆

Blame it all on the accursed metric system!

[Roger Moss]

Nearing completion of a very long overdue rebuild on a blind head motor, I reviewed the ferrules in the block for holding the water jacket.
They was really not safe to use
Phone Graham Moag, have you got any ferrules
Sorry Roger just sold the last and have none on order so far
OK, make drawing, make ferrules and nuts including some for Spares Scheme. Get them phosphate treated to prolong life
Thread is 15/16 x 24 TPI x 60 degree
Threads in block not good so ferrules are reluctant to screw in
Do I winch them in or make / get a tap to clean out the hole
Cheaper to buy one perhaps and if thread ground in HSS far better than my screwcut and home hardened offering in 01 steel
One new “second” hand tap made as a special in USA $160
At least I can have a clear conscience that I have not compromised the quality

[BRIAN MARSHALL]

Hi.
I’m 99% sure that these screws are 5 BA, which is of course in engineering terms, a “non-preferred” thread, like all the BA odd numbers. I have just rebuilt six Pilgrim pumps and have had to reclaim the existing slightly mangled screw heads by careful work with Swiss files. They can then be treated with “gun blue” compound to restore the nice original finish. (All the ones that I have are not electroplated nickel or chrome, nor are they blacked. They are definitely a gun blue chemical finish) One or two were mangled beyond redemption but I was able to find replacements off a pump that couldn’t be rebuilt as the body was partly ground away from a trip along the road surface at some time! It yielded good plungers and drive worm too.

[efr215]

I think Brian’s 99% pretty much confirms it then.

Anyone needing 5BA screws might do worse than seek out a model engineering supplier as 5BA is a size still used in the hobby. (1.5″/ft being a popular scale and 5BA scales to a 1″ bolt — not a lot of of people know that!) The only problem here is that you might only be offered them with a hexagon head and quite possibly with a smaller 6BA head on it at that. (It’s a scale thing.)

[chstorm]

D. Middleton & Son, the stainless fastener specialists (excellent service) have 5BA slotted screws in solid, plated brass:

DMD1S1791 5 BA x 1/2 ROUND £0.15
DMD1S1792 5 BA x 3/8 CHEESE £0.15

On their website, you will find these under:

Miscellaneous Stock >> SOLID BRASS (Plated) SCREWS (Slotted)

Their web address is: http://www.stainlessmiddleton.co.uk

You can also reach them by telephone: 01924 470 807

Kind regards,

[pplatt]

chstorm: Thanks for your help. I will see if I can find someone to measure my screws to make sure they are 5BA and then order some from the folks you suggest.

If I have to place an order for more than two (many suppliers having a minimum order quantity) would anyone else like some or would it be an idea to pass the excess to the spares scheme?

By the way, are screws measured with a thread gauge like bolts and if so is a special screw gauge required?

Cheers,

Pete P.

[BRIAN MARSHALL]

Further to my previous posting, I am now 110% sure that they are 5 BA.
I have a beautiful boxed set of BA taps and dies that is donkeys years old and seldom used. The series runs from 0 BA to 22 BA, but my set only goes down to 12 BA. The smallest I have ever used is 8 BA, and that was in my teens when I was building model boats and aircraft.
Not many people realise that the BA series is a METRIC system, and I never realised until I noticed that 0 BA has 25.4 threads to the inch, and of course there are 25.4 mm to the inch.
Incidentally 22BA has 254 TPI (!!), WOW! Totally irrelevant to Scotts, but interesting, useless information that my brain seems to be full of…
When the UK “went Metric” the BA system was declared obsolete! It should have been embraced as an existing Metric system, in regular use since 1903.

[Jon Hodges]

Before anyone goes rushing off ordering special BA screws for the cover, I have just unearthed a large quantity of 5BA round head plain brass screws. They are too long being 3/4″ length but I would be happy to donate them to the Spares Scheme and will take them to Abbotsholme. There would appear to be sufficient numbers to replace the screws in every surviving Pilgrim Pump.

Jon Hodges

[pplatt]

Jon: I don’t think I’ll be able to make it to Abbotsholme but if you do give your screws to the spares scheme could you let me know so I can buy a couple.

Thanks,

Pete P.

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