Two speeder kickstarter revisited

This topic has 18 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 18 years, 2 months ago by Deleted User.

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24th December 2007 at 8:48 am #2034

Deleted User
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Hi all,

While working on my two speed gear I had a closer look at my kickstarter ratchet assembly. As you might recall I had as lot of troubles with my kickstarter working not properly. I blamed bad teeth on both ratchets for this. But looking closely they mesh quite well. The I noticed something else. When you look at the pictures below you see that the postion of the drum in rest is quite different from the drawing. With the cam on the ratchet only a quarter of a turn away from the the cam on the kickstartboss it would seem that when starting the ratchet would be trown out of engagement before it really had the chance to engage! While starting the bike this was just what appears to happen.

Might the spring be to long or attached at the drum on a wrong point? Any ideas on this? Maybe my whole problem can be solved by drilling another attachement hole in the drum or shortening the spring!
I have also placed a picture of my spring and one from the spares scheme.

Any comment anyone?

Cheers,
Erik

24th December 2007 at 5:22 pm #7198

Deleted User
Participant

Now you are on the right track…. However, I don’t think the return spring has anything to do with your problem. A spring just pushes or pulls. Its the positions of the ramps and stops which matter…. I will look at mine and see if I can pass on some help…… Graham

26th December 2007 at 6:26 pm #7199

Deleted User
Participant

Thank you Graham, I would appricate that!

Cheers,
Erik

26th December 2007 at 7:37 pm #7200

Deleted User
Participant

Erik, I just had a look at my kick starter machanism and am now sure that yours is meerly assembled/adjusted wrongly.

Looking at the ratchet drum, and using the spring attachment screw as a pointer I have the following:

When assembled for use:

at rest the screw is at 7 o’clock.
ratchet engages with the screw at 10 o’clock.
at end of kickstart stroke, ratchet just starts to disengage, with screw at 5 o’clock.

with chain disconnected, the ratchet is fully released when screw is at 6 o’clock.

My chain is 11.5 full links in length. A wrong length chain could position the ratchet drum wrongly. Your rod may also be a different length to mine.

Changing the chain length to get correct operation is probably the best place to start. When you have recovered from the Xmas celebrations, try that and see where it leads……. Graham

26th December 2007 at 8:52 pm #7201

Deleted User
Participant

Many thanks Graham! I am sure your figures will form a good guideline when I have the gear back in the frame. At the moment this is in pieces on the kitchentable…

Will post my results here later!

Cheers,
Erik

27th December 2007 at 7:01 pm #7202

Deleted User
Participant

Hi Graham,

I have taken some pictures of my chain-rod assembly.

Total length 495 mm

Number of rollers: 20 (got a bit confused with your term “full links”). The last link looks a bit newer than the rest. Maybe the chain was lengthened?

27th December 2007 at 11:20 pm #7203

Deleted User
Participant

As I understand the convention a “link” is a unit of a pair of inside and a pair of outside plates and three rollers. Half links are manufactured, in that case the single pair of plates are cranked inwards at one end with just two rollers.

Can someone tell me how to put pictures on here as it’d be so much easier!!! (Worded for the computer illiterate please!)

And wot’s wiv that metric ruler Erik?
Exits stage left muttering darkly . . .

‘Appy new year to all!

28th December 2007 at 6:02 pm #7204

Deleted User
Participant

Eric, As I undersand the problem with your kickstarter, just as you commence a kickstart you are comming onto the ramp, which pushes your ratchet out of mesh. At the commencement of the stroke, you should be comming off the ramp. This suggests that your chain/rod combination is too long. … Graham

28th December 2007 at 7:20 pm #7205

Deleted User
Participant

@Graham: I think you are definitly right! When I put it back on the bike I will mark the drum so I can see where the ramp is and do some further checking.

@efr215: I posted a “how to’ on including pictures in another section of this forum a while ago. Here the link. If it is not clear, please do tell me!

And the metric ruler, well just preparing you for the inevitable… . Reed more here…

Cheers,
Erik

21st May 2008 at 1:07 pm #7206

Deleted User
Participant

Update on the kickstart saga:

I did some dental work on my kickstarter:

More in my blog (entry from May 21st).

Cheers,
Erik

1st June 2008 at 7:41 pm #7207

Deleted User
Participant

Well, somehow this story never ends… Today I tried my retoothed kickstarter for the first time for real as I attended an classic rally today. The bike started after 3 kicks and that was the last time the kickstarter worked. During the day I had to start the bike about ten times and I never could get it to start on the kickstarter again.

The teeth engage properly most of the time but the pedal just does not seem to have enough stroke to crack the engine over properly/enough revoluions to fire up. Not even close. After pushing the bike in gear for a few meters she always started right up.

I adjusted the pedal so that the ratchet engages almost instantly, so there is hardly any part of the actual stroke lost on this. Could perhaps not using the decompressionvalves have anything to do with it? My dc valves are not connected what makes my engine harder to turn over. If I were to attach the valves, would my engine make more turns after each kick?

Or any other ideas?

Cheers,
Erik

2nd June 2008 at 2:09 pm #7208

dave bushell
Participant

Hi Erik
At what position of the kick start does the ratchet engage? The half compression valves shouldn’t make much difference.
Dave

2nd June 2008 at 4:36 pm #7209

Deleted User
Participant

Erik,

If the kickstart lever, shaft or cotter pin are badly worn the kickstart lever will lose travel. I had to weld my shaft up to get the kickstart lever to the correct starting angle, about 70 degrees past vertical. Now I usually have first kick starting if the engine is warm. I do use the half compression valves for starting as for me the kickstart is not well placed at the back wheel. Also retard the ignition for starting. The half compression valves are part of the engine and in my opinion should be left intact. They should not leak if there is clearance between the valves and the operating lever at rest. They can easily be screwed in or out for maintenance with a simple tool made from a piece of steel tubing.

2nd June 2008 at 6:23 pm #7210

Deleted User
Participant

@Dave: the starter engages at 9 o’clock (screw were chain attaches to as pointer) and at end of the stroke is at 3 – 4 o’clock.

@Graham: there is no play in any part of the assembly, everythings feels really sound. Below a picture of the starter.

The angle is a bit steeper in real as the bike is on the rear stand on the picture. The starter cannot go any higher as it is already against it’s stop.
I do retard the ignition and will try the decompression valves as soon as I find a fitting lever for this.

Thanks so far guys!

Cheers,
Erik

3rd June 2008 at 4:31 pm #7211

Deleted User
Participant

Erik,
From your picture I would say that the kickstart mechanism is in good shape. That leaves other options, like the spark plugs. I am using NGK A-6.

Also if the spark plug points are partly hidden by being very recessed starting will be more difficult.

If the bike runs well and ticks over I doubt the magneto is the problem…… Graham
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