HOME and how to join › Forum › Open Area › General Scott topics › URGENT: GPZ Scott, what would this be worth
Via, via I received this pictures:
What would this be worth? Does anyone know this machine?
Some more info.
….race Scott from 1935, engine nr GPZ 5220. Overhauled in 1974 by Silk. Double brakes at the front, tyres front 300×19 and rear 350×19, BTH magneto, Amal carb with twin floatchambers.
This machine is seen as the TT racer from Jeffreys…
Any commenst welcome!!
No idea what it’s worth, but…wow!
ATG
Paul
Hi Erik,
If I were you, I would avoid paying a lot for this bike. To me it looks like an amateur effort to build a “racer” from various bits and pieces. A lot of “bits and pieces” are missing, maybe on purpose, but the result does not (in my opinion) look very workmanlike. If the bike has a racing history, it would probably make it more valuable – but …. Ask for history and documentation.
The interesting modification is the twin front brakes. That and the two float chambers indicate that a previous owner has intended to make a fast bike. Whether this was met with success seems more doubtful. A DPZ is after all only a 500cc. – But I may of course be wrong.
As we both know from experience, a Scott will normally need a full engine, undertray and gearbox overhaul. The Webb fork will also almost always need attention. All this cost serious money.
If you want this as a project and a challenge – fine – but otherwise – unless the bike has a documented racing background, I would regard it as a collection of possibly useable spare parts, and pay for it accordingly.
Personally I would not pay more than £800 – 1000 for it, probably less.
Best regards,
Carl
Hi Carl,
Thank you for your reply. The engine is GPZ and that is an official Grand Prix engine and those are very rare. But I agree on the overall appearance of the bike. Besides the engine it kind of looks like a nice effort to build a racer around a good engine.
I will call the seller today and probably have a look at the bike (it’s only 35 km away) and post here.
Cheers,
Erik
The Engine No may well be incorrect. The size of the No is wrong and too small. 5250 is a 1949 Eng No and there may be a Scott in existance with the Eng No DPY 5250. GP Engines were made in 1934 and their numbers would be around 3880. This bike is on the machine register with no Frame No declared.
Eric, please email me direct for more info.
The Engine No may well be incorrect. The size of the No is wrong and too small. 5250 is a 1949 Eng No and there may be a Scott in existance with the Eng No DPY 5250. GP Engines were made in 1934 and their numbers would be around 3880. This bike is on the machine register with no Frame No declared.
Eric, please email me direct for more info.
Ian, you’ve got mail / pm!
Update: just got of the phone with the seller.
He bought the bike on a Sotheby auction in 1976. The bike never ran since. He has no documentation whatsoever and knows absolutely nothing about Scotts. He is a Norton collector.
He wanted 10.000-12.000 euro for the bike (6.700-8.300 GBP)….
I think I will pass this ;o)
Is this the one that is for sale in OBM this month for 23,500 !!!!!!
Roger Hulett
Yep…
Hi. That is definitely NOT a Grand Prix engine even if you ignore the obviously faked number. The 1934 GP engines have a much larger crankcase door opening diameter, and originally had the magneto mounted on the left hand crankcase door and driven via a bevel drive arrangement. On the right hand door was a very complicated swashplate oil pump. This machine would be useful as a source of bits to build a racing Scott but it is not a Grand Prix Scott.
Regards. Brian Marshall.
Thank goodness for that info, Brian,you just saved me 23,500 !!!!!
Roger
Hi all,
This bike is also on sold in http://www.yesterdays.nl for 29500€.
Engine number GPZ 3250 ?
Frame number 2821 M
Regards. Juan Felix
All,
For those without the Scott Selection vols 1 – 3 let me copy out some comments about the circa 1934 GPZ engines:
Vol 1, page 88
“The three model 1934 range included the new parallel crank ‘Grand Prix’ engine fitted to TT Replicas, with four speed foot change gearbox at no extra cost”. From this it appears that the GP engine was marketed to the public rather than a ‘works’ racer.
Vol 2, p145
“The new Flying Squirrel TT Replica model retained the duplex frame whereas the other models had reverted from the single down tube type to the duplex frame. The TT Replica shown, featured the new Grand Prix engine, having parallel cranks, larger bearings and redesigned lubrication systems by means of the new Scott oil pump” and “The ‘new’ 4-speed gearbox with foot change was offered as an option on the TT Replica model at an extra cost of £5 but the photo shows the usual 3 speed pattern gearbox. Prices were £84 (498cc) and £87 (596cc). The Lucas Magdyno was also an extra cost item at £16-10-0. Only 11 G.P. engines are listed in the Works Despatch records. It was not a successful design”.
Vol 3, p110
“The 1933 Senior TT was held on Friday June 16th and attracted a single 498cc Reynolds Special Scott entry ridden by T Hatch and enterered by A. E. Reynolds of Liverpool. The above [blured] phtograph shows Tommy Hatch hurrying to the weigh in after fitting a rebuilt engine at the last minute. The machine was fitted with one of the Grand Prix engines GPZ4042 and incorporated several special components in its specification including an Electron crankcase, 4-speed gearbox, 5 gallon petrol tank, larger radiator with a steam valve, Scott swash plate oil pump and bevel gear driven magneto and detachable cylinder head. T Hatch finished the race in 15th position. The section drawing shows the construction of the crank assembly of the G.P. engine with parallel fitting and thicker cranks, revised big end and main bearing assembly and lubrication attangements. Only 11 G.P. engines are listed in the Scott Works Despatch Records”.
On page 112 and 113 there is a sectional drawing and exploded photo of the Scott oil pump which was “an original fitment on 1933 Flying Squirrel Sports amd Replica models and 1934 Grand Prix and Replica models or could be purchased separately for 3 guineas but it was expensive to produce and too complicated for most Scott owners. The majority were returned to the works for modification or adjustment and 1935 models reverted to Pilgrim Duplex Pumps”.
All the best,
Colin
Yeah guys, there are a lot of vague things about this bike/engine…
I spoke with the guys from Yesterdays about it but they are convinced it is an actual GPZ engine. I could only tell them of my doubts…. No disrespect here, they really do know a LOT about veteran bikes and I think their shop is amongst the best in the world. But hey, you cannot know everything!
They told me they bought the Scott together with a BSA ohv Sloper and I guess the price they paid is below 10.000 euro….
Cheers,
Erik