Need Oil and Gearbox Specifications

[Deleted User]

Best of luck that man. I thought I could shift anything and met my match with a 1921 engine that I think had been in a pond since 1922. Months in diesel, more months in the most exotic chemicals I could buy, heating, cooling— and it laughed at me! As Brian said, I ended up grinding through the rods, but I still have two pistons and rods down a barrel as though they had been cast in situ. It all reminds my of Clint Eastwoods line, “A man has got to know his limitations”! If either of the pistons are above the exhaust ports, then a 14mm / 1/8 BSP adapter a hydraulic type grease nipple and a Wanner type high pressure grease gun might help free one of them. Personally I would take then engine out and get it nailed down somewhere solid so you could start a serious battle with it. We all wish you luck and please be assured, that when you have gone through all these difficulties, you will find that the final result will well justify the efforts. There is no such thing as failure, only success deferred. Kindest Regards Roger

[BRIAN MARSHALL]

It follows on from what Roger has just commented that you should NOT think about trying to remove the cylinder head yet, as if you try the hydraulic pressure down the spark plug hole trick, you will need the head to be in place to contain the pressure ! As Roger says, you can only try this method if the piston on that side is above the level of the ports. Another thing to find out is whether just one, or both pistons are seized, so you should undo both crankpin screws, noting that one is L/H thread, and one is R/H thread !!!! (they are marked accordingly). With them unscrewed, and the big-end side-plates removed, you can take out the big-end bearing rollers, which gives you some ‘slack’ in the connecting rods. If one cylinder is free, you will be able to move the conrod up and down, within the limits imposed by the crankpin. If there is no movement, then obviously that is the side that is seized…. If both sides are seized you really have a BIG problem, and it is then a matter of getting the engine out of the frame, and resorting to desperate measures. I’m sure that everyone reading all this is now keeping their fingers crossed for you !
Brian

[Deleted User]

Brian & Roger,

I just read your posts and I had already removed the head. I had used a video camera on a snake that gave me a good look inside the cylinders and it needed to come off to clean up all the sludge the chemicals caused. I was able to determine that the cylinder walls above the pistons are in great shape so I’m hoping that they are in the same kind of shape below and it’s just the rings rusted. In any case I like the idea of removing the big ends and will attempt that tomorrow.

I keep you posted…..

Cheers!!!!

[Deleted User]

Forgot to ask is there a online engine diagram available?

[Deleted User]

If you PM me an email address I can send an engine drawing from the factory records. It’s from 1947 but is essentially the same.

Roy.F

[Deleted User]

Hi Guys,

Well i took a moment to look over the head and what I found was not very good… despite the fact that the left side of the heads water jackets were clogged up
and a nasty little chunk gone from the left cylinder crown. There was water and anti freeze in it so I’m wondering how it was blocked so bad???? Anyway, found a invoice
that shows it was rebuild and gearbox gone through back in 1978. And, I also found the title which says that its a 1957 and not a 1959 which I thought it was so don’t I have
egg on my face!!!

Oh I guess I will need to alter my user name now…. maybe I’ll try being a little more creative this time!!!

I still need to do what you both suggested yesterday and hope I can find some time as the wife has me doing other things……

I would like to share some pictures that I took if your interested so if you could give me a email address I will send them.

Cheers,

Steve

[Deleted User]

Hello Steve,

Drawings sent as promised. There’s little difference between 57 & 59 except perhaps the electrics which may be Miller on the later machine.

Roy.F

[Deleted User]

Thanks Roy truly appreciate it…. Is there a ledger for all these numbers? Some of them are no brainers but it would be nice to have one.

[Clawed]

Hello Mr. 59 / 57 Birmingham,

If worst comes to worst and you can not move the pistons, drill the top of the pistons and get into them with a die grinder and large course burr and chew away behind the rings, then pretend you are working on a Harley and smash the ring and bits of piston with a cold chisel. If it frees up after that it was the rings that were stuck, if not you will have to split the piston with the burr and probably a sacrificial screwdriver. If you buy or borrow equipment make sure that you can reach far enough down the bore with it. Aluminium is a pain with burr’s, rubbing french chalk on the burr helps a bit, as with files.

I have never had a problem with dumping moderatly heated casting ionto cold water, I have dumped 125 K.T.M. castings and 50’s Matchless singles into cold water on many occasions. The only problem encountered was the a bent conrod on the K.T.M. Twice, in four years. I learnt something from that, avoid crashing in rivers.
I know iron oxide, and most other metal oxides are considered insolubile in water but the only reason water is used is it is a low viscosity fluid. Anything of similar or lower viscosity will do. But water is cheap and non flammable etc. I know Keith spent a day dissassembling a late teens or early 20’s Velo when the previous owner had tried for 20 years to dissassemble it. To the previous owners credit he had not destroyed anything.

Geoff

[Deleted User]

Hello Steve,

Sorry, no key to the numbers exists (as far as I am aware) but it’s hard to see how they needed all those numbers for an engine with so few moving parts!

Roy.F

[Deleted User]

Hello Gents,

Just wanted to let you all know that I got the barrel off!!!!!

The chemical solution I spoke of along with a large puller and .a variable speed air gun did the trick after I had separated the barrel from the block in the usual manor off backing off the four barrel bolts and using a small piece of 2×4 and mallet to free it from the block which had also free up the right piston. At that point I had the surface of the barrel to clamp the puller on and then just pulled the barrel back off the left piston. I’ve removed the pistons and con rods and will need to remove the crank because water had mixed with the oil and got behind the crank on the left side so it needs to come down for a full inspection. I’ve got a machine shop to inspect the barrel for me and they say they can fix the head so I’ll see what comes of that before I start making a parts list.

I guess my first question would be is there one vendor or person that I can get all the engine internal parts when I decide what I need or will I have several vendors. Any information on that would be a big help at this point.

Cheers
Steve

[BRIAN MARSHALL]

Please refer carefully to ‘Technicalities’ before attempting to remove the cranks. The Scott handbook is useless to the point of being dangerous on this topic !!! Get it wrong, and you may break the main bearing cups and/or the crankcase when getting the cranks to separate from the tapers in the flywheel.
Brian

[Author]

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